The Civic Hall Car Park

[Howard Murray]

It appears yet another set of rumours and conspiracy theories have gained currency and are increasingly causing unnecessary concern to many. It may therefore be useful to set down what is known as fact and, in breaking from the norm, I will add my opinion. I know this won’t stop the mischief makers for long but it may give others with genuine concerns some comfort.

The majority of the Civic Centre car park is owned by Cheshire East Council (CEC). It was previously by Macclesfield Borough Council (MBC). The Doctors surgery own most of the space outside theirs and the Civic Centre’s front doors. The only body that can impose car parking charges are CEC.

Poynton Town Council have long held the view that because this car park serves many community needs (Church, walking bus, re-cycling, Library, Civic Centre, Doctors) that it should be free. It was also argued that being free it helps to prevent selfish and illegal parking. For example, parents with Children at Vernon School are asked to park here rather than right outside the school.
It is my understanding that the Waitrose development will produce an additional 30 (?) car spaces and, as part of the planning consent, Waitrose are required to maintain the car park as well as provide the re-cycling facilities. In a July 09 Planning Committee meeting of the Town Council it was noted that Waitrose wanted to put the cabling for ticket dispensers in place during the refurbishment of the car park. Most people agreed that this was sensible and prudent step, given the possibility – but not the certainty - of charges being imposed. It will cost considerably more to retrofit such utilities and would cause further disruption.

It occurred to me some time ago that the best guardians of the car park would be the Town Council, subsequently I persuaded fellow Town Cllrs to formally ask that MBC transfer the asset to Poynton TC (I was the MBC member for Assets so could not ask myself). Sadly, because it was a big request, and the fact that another Cllr interfered at a critical point, the negotiations did not go well, and the MBC cabinet decided to pass the request to the then nascent CEC. They have in turn so far refused to consider such a transfer.
As part of the car park negotiations with Waitrose, a one-off lump sum payment, by them, was agreed (£75k). And, at the same meeting where the request for the asset to be transferred was deferred I was able steer this towards Poynton TC; to be paid when Waitrose opens.
As part of the same contract it was further agreed that no car parking charges would be levied until a minimum period of 6 months after the opening of the store had elapsed. At that time an independent report would be commissioned and CEC would consider its recommendations. Clearly it might recommend no charges, but in all likelihood it would recommend charges based on the need to keep the facility at a level where anyone wanting to, could park for a reasonable period. Whatever is recommended I must stress it is CEC that will decide.

As part of CEC’s drive to support lower rate increases all aspects of increasing revenue are being looked at, and logically that must include parking charges.

This is probably not the place for a tangential discussion but some recognition of related issues is needed in order to comprehend the difficulties and therefore the apparent determination/intransigence of CEC to press ahead with car parking charges across the Borough of Cheshire East.
First, the unfairness of this government’s policies whereby it penalises areas such as Cheshire East by not providing an equitable amount of funds in the rate support grant. This is often described as the ‘curse of affluence’.
There are also many Cllrs who philosophically will not consider increases in the rates despite the need to annually find a balance between the services that they want to provided and their attendant cost. There are also those who believe that rates should be reduced, but fail to offer any suggestions as to how services that must be legally delivered can be maintained but at a reduced cost. It is also worth noting that the majority of the CEC budget is spent on education, young people, the elderly and the vulnerable. People often also forget the large chunks of Council Tax that are spent on the Fire and Police Services, over which the Council has no real control but must act as the collection agents for those precepts.

In my opinion there are several aspects to parking charges that need to be considered. One is the need to prevent all day parking that inhibits local shopping. In Poynton for example the Civic Centre car park is used by people working in the shops and offices as well as those going on days out. There was a noticeable increase in its usage once the Co-op introduced charging. A second use of charging is to discourage the use of vehicles – traffic congestion and pollution etc. It is also considered by many to be a fairer system to actually charge the people who use the facility rather than to expect all ratepayers including non car users to support it. However, the counter argument is that the childless pay to support others children through education.
Another aspect is the impact on local businesses. Currently there is a major furore about the harmonised charges being brought in to Congleton where previously they had enjoyed free car parking. It is stated by a large number of people as an absolute fact that car parking charges discourage people from using local shops. Interestingly there is also evidence that actually contradicts this, but we know from our experience here in Poynton that having a free car park does not guarantee that local shops will be supported - it is free now and still the shops struggle. At a recent meeting that I attended in Congleton this subject came up, and after discussion the majority of people agreed that it is the quality of the shopping experience and not car parking charges that mattered.

There also has to be a political reality check: I can envisage all 3 Poynton CEC Cllrs voting against charging being imposed here in Poynton but in all probability there are going to be 78 other Cllrs who will say: ‘why should you be any different?’

If charging does become a reality then I believe that every locality must have its charges set in relation to its economic, as well as, its community demands. Not the 'one size fits all' approach that someone else was suggesting. For example, I could envisage a fee of: 20p for 2 hours; 30p for 3 hours; x£ for 3 plus hours would make sense in Poynton - in terms of not penalising shoppers and facility users too much, but actively deterring those who park there all day or longer and thus deny others parking. Of course with any scheme there also needs to be some assessment of where ‘displaced’ vehicles might park. No one has the right to park on the road outside their home and streets adjacent to the main shopping area could end up with displaced cars outside their home for most of the day.

In summary, currently there are no plans to introduce car parking charges to the Civic Centre car park. However, there is a general statement of intent to harmonise car parking across CEC and, whilst Poynton has a stay of execution because of Waitrose, in my opinion, it is unlikely that Poynton would be made the only exception within the Borough where the same or very similar community and economic arguments have been deployed elsewhere and have failed.
It may be some time before a decision to charge for parking has to be made. That decision will be based on a variety of factors several of which are unknown to us today. The 6 months review report will be significant but not ultimately decisive in that process.
Should charges be imposed then I believe there are strong arguments for a pricing regime that does not penalise those shopping or stopping for 3 hours or less. Clearly charging or not is a contentious decision and whatever is decided the law of unintended consequences will apply.

Is it a stealth tax? That depends on your definition of stealth – it does not seem that stealthy to me; rather ‘in your face’, like VAT, NI, excise duty, stamp duty, airport charges etc. However, viewed positively, it is aimed at the users and not the general population. Also, the money that would be raised would be retained in the Borough and that would help to mitigate pressures on the council tax and services; charging could help with pollution and traffic reduction; charging should also help to maintain sufficient spaces for those who really do want to shop locally.


Any opinion expressed above is my own and is based on the facts as I know them today.

[zzippy]

If charging does become a reality then I believe that every locality must have its charges set in relation to its economic, as well as, its community demands. Not the 'one size fits all' approach that someone else was suggesting. For example, I could envisage a fee of: 20p for 2 hours; 30p for 3 hours; x£ for 3 plus hours would make sense in Poynton - in terms of not penalising shoppers and facility users too much, but actively deterring those who park there all day or longer and thus deny others parking.
Any opinion expressed above is my own and is based on the facts as I know them today.

Thanks for the input, it is a well known fact that present and possible future goverment policy is to dissuade car usage for all sorts of reasons.

But Poynton doesn't have a 10 minute bus service running round in circles or loops around the town like slightly larger towns,

Even a RELIABLE large minibus/small bus running from approx the bird estate past the station around clifford road and the vernon estate as far up as waterloo road before coming back park lane to the town centre then going back round would be a help to Poyntons many elderley and young. And at a nominal say 50p charge or a £1 for 2 or more would contribute towards it's running costs.

Just out of interest don't you think that free up to 3 or 4 hours would dissuade all day parkers, and if you do charge all day parkers/shop owners the price we all pay in their shops goes up to compensate their increased costs ?

Maybe i will just have to be a lot more organised and keep a big pile of change hidden in the car

[Howard Murray]

As I have previously stated, at present there is no plan to impose charges that I am aware of, and I can not see how that will change until Waitrose has been up and running for 6 months or more.

The charging structure you mention is clearly an option (free for the first few hours).
IF, at that time a decision to charge is made then I would have thought that a free period would be a good starting point - if it did not work then the charging structure could be altered.
The 'however' is around the main reason for charging: raising revenue or dissuading long stay car parking. If it is the former then the fee structure would be unlikely to include a free period.

[jbm]

Waitrose will be more than happy for charges to apply, as you state they have planned to put the cables in for the machines that may be fitted.
When I lived down South, my local Sainsbury's in Locks Bottom, Kent (this is a real place, it's down the rd from Pratts Bottom, honest) they paid for the upkeep of the carpark, it is next to local shops and a hospital.
Sainsbury's would give you the cash back for your parking, so you could park for free as long as you shopped with them, Waitrose will no doubt encourage us with the same "free parking"

[boatmanckp]

The system used for many years by Peel in Stockport where the first hour and a half is free would I think be acceptable and would help with school drop off parking.Of course the new supermarket would like to charge as it is quite clear the present car park is too small, and they would refund that charge to shoppers.The new Co-op system seems to work OK and they dont mind who uses it. CKP

[ma-ogy]

What we have not to lose sight of is as Cllr Murray pointed out , that Cheshire East Council own the majority of the Civic car park , this being so only they can implement charges.

But I do think we are limping before we have been kicked , Im led to believe there are no immediate plans to charge .
But lets hope if C.E.C do plan to impose charges in the future , they will give the residents of Poynton fair warning.

[nedsram]

There's a petition you can sign in the "backwards parking policy" thread (page 5).

[Howard Murray]

The following press relase was issued today. It gives some details that I think can be extrapolated to Poynton.
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Cheshire East Council today announced that after careful consideration changes to existing car parking charge proposals are being looked at.

Council Leader Wesley Fitzgerald today said: ”We have listened to representations from ward members, the public and from traders and we understand better the issues that affect specific areas.

“Cheshire East Council has, all along, tried to assure residents that it was listening to their concerns. It is to be hoped that local people are reassured that they have been listened to and that their views have been taken into account.

“I would like to thank everyone who responded to the consultation and helped make a difference.

“As a result, the Council will consider modified proposals that if accepted, will mean the arrangements for the individual town areas will be as follows:

Alsager - no charge for car parking at the current time. The position will be reviewed on the completion of the local supermarket development.

Holmes Chapel and Middlewich - car parking will remain free at the current time and any need for further controls will be monitored.

Sandbach – no charges will be introduced at this time, until there is resolution to the legal issues surrounding the main town centre car parks.

Congleton - From the week starting Monday February 15, car parking charges will be introduced to the major town centre car parks. See below, but the following car parks in Congleton will remain free to use:
Blake Street/Edgerton Street
Rood Hill
Royle Street
Thomas Street

Plans are also in place to transfer the legal responsibility for enforcing control of on-street parking from the police to the Authority.

Cheshire East Council has also set aside funding to provide a Residents Parking Scheme across the area over the next 12 months. Ward Councillors will be fully consulted through all of the scheme’s design.








From Monday February 15, charges will be made in the following Congleton car parks.

Chapel Street (50p for up to two hours)
Antrobus Street (30p for up to one hour)
Princess Street (30p for up to one hour)
Fairground (30p for up to one hour)
Back Park Street (50p for up to two hours)
West Street (50p for up to two hours)
Park Street (50p for up to two hours)

Roe Street – car parking will be free at the current time and any need for further controls will be monitored.

With regard to Ropewalk – No charges will be introduced until legal issues are resolved.

[Rostervor]

Thank you for the information.

If/when the car park charging is discussed, let us hope that People Power will acheive the same result in Poynton.

[CAC]

A group has just been set up 'Poynton Against Parking Charges' , we have also linked with the other towns in Cheshire East to try and stop parking across the borough. I suggest you visit the web site www.no2parkingcharges.com and sign the petition. Poynton's name will be shortley added to this and we will be holding a public meeting. Thank you for your support.